Removal of Stephanie Esther - Sydney Poetry2024-03-29T13:50:27Zhttp://www.sydneypoetry.com/forum/topics/removal-of-stephanie-esther?commentId=5231298%3AComment%3A44618&feed=yes&xn_auth=noIsn't time this very old and…tag:www.sydneypoetry.com,2016-06-08:5231298:Comment:575162016-06-08T08:36:11.483ZLou Steerhttp://www.sydneypoetry.com/profile/LouSteer
<p>Isn't time this very old and somewhat personal thread was deleted? Is anyone still moderating this site?</p>
<p>Isn't time this very old and somewhat personal thread was deleted? Is anyone still moderating this site?</p> As nothing new seems to be ha…tag:www.sydneypoetry.com,2014-03-22:5231298:Comment:524312014-03-22T07:49:38.739ZLou Steerhttp://www.sydneypoetry.com/profile/LouSteer
<p>As nothing new seems to be happening on this site, I looked up Stephanie Esther. Here's her only poem on the internt, called God. <a href="http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/god-169/" target="_blank">http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/god-169/</a></p>
<p></p>
<p>Starts withr Rhyming couplets, gives up on them for a while in favour of alternating line rhymes, goes back to them, veers off into free verse...altogether showing the kinds of basic inconsistencies young poets make.</p>
<p></p>
<p>I suspect…</p>
<p>As nothing new seems to be happening on this site, I looked up Stephanie Esther. Here's her only poem on the internt, called God. <a href="http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/god-169/" target="_blank">http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/god-169/</a></p>
<p></p>
<p>Starts withr Rhyming couplets, gives up on them for a while in favour of alternating line rhymes, goes back to them, veers off into free verse...altogether showing the kinds of basic inconsistencies young poets make.</p>
<p></p>
<p>I suspect she was trying to make a name for herself by trolling on this site, as her comments showed a lack of knowledge about poetry and her one poem is not at all good. But while she adopted a sneering, condescending tone, she did not directly abuse other poets, she aimed at their work (in all cases, better than hers). Is that grounds for banning someone?</p>
<p></p>
<p>When a site becomes moribund in a fairly short space of time, I would say no. Sites thrive when there is active discussion and disagreement, not when there is muted harmony probably disguising seething disagreement lurking below.</p>
<p></p> Thank you all for the thought…tag:www.sydneypoetry.com,2013-05-02:5231298:Comment:493882013-05-02T13:23:52.379ZEthel Mildred Malleyhttp://www.sydneypoetry.com/profile/EthelMildredMalley
<p>Thank you all for the thoughtful commentary, and the lively discussion. </p>
<p>Three points:</p>
<ul>
<li>Removing someone from the site will almost always be because they've behaved in a careless, superior or malicious way in respect of others on the site. This is troll behaviour. </li>
<li>Removing trolls isn't about censorship. Any decent and thoughtful commenter can couch a critique in a generous way. Trolls are just mean. </li>
<li>Trolls are nothing new on social sites. There are…</li>
</ul>
<p>Thank you all for the thoughtful commentary, and the lively discussion. </p>
<p>Three points:</p>
<ul>
<li>Removing someone from the site will almost always be because they've behaved in a careless, superior or malicious way in respect of others on the site. This is troll behaviour. </li>
<li>Removing trolls isn't about censorship. Any decent and thoughtful commenter can couch a critique in a generous way. Trolls are just mean. </li>
<li>Trolls are nothing new on social sites. There are sites with a high tolerance of troll behaviours, and sites with a low tolerance. This is one of the latter. </li>
</ul>
<p>Basically trolls can go bowling elsewhere. </p>
<p>Find out more about <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)" target="_blank">troll culture and history</a> over at Wikipedia. </p>
<p>I hope this clarifies our stance. And of course it's only in extreme circumstances that someone is removed from the site without a prior warning.</p> Catherine
Fear of wind and…tag:www.sydneypoetry.com,2013-03-29:5231298:Comment:486532013-03-29T22:21:36.836ZDermott Ryderhttp://www.sydneypoetry.com/profile/DermottRyder
<p>Catherine</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Fear of wind and a predilection for small aromatic spaces has not so far inhibited the flow of your always in good taste comments and responses. However, in an examination of your page I note that your interesting and informative comments and responses by far outnumber your poetry contributions. I would be happy to read more of the latter.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Regards</p>
<p>DR</p>
<p>Catherine</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Fear of wind and a predilection for small aromatic spaces has not so far inhibited the flow of your always in good taste comments and responses. However, in an examination of your page I note that your interesting and informative comments and responses by far outnumber your poetry contributions. I would be happy to read more of the latter.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Regards</p>
<p>DR</p> Catherine, Don't be banished…tag:www.sydneypoetry.com,2013-03-28:5231298:Comment:484602013-03-28T23:27:07.712Zwilliam james fallshttp://www.sydneypoetry.com/profile/williamjamesfalls
<p>Catherine, Don't be banished to the four winds, I have been there, it is not a good place.</p>
<p>Some time before the Stephanie incident a guy using the name David W was on this site, he abused every one and everything on the site, Stephanie was an angel compared to him, he had to go. Put your work out there and be proud of it, any comments that come</p>
<p>back take them with a pinch of salt, you know your worth, good, bad, or indifferent</p>
<p>keep going, after all it is only poetry . .…</p>
<p>Catherine, Don't be banished to the four winds, I have been there, it is not a good place.</p>
<p>Some time before the Stephanie incident a guy using the name David W was on this site, he abused every one and everything on the site, Stephanie was an angel compared to him, he had to go. Put your work out there and be proud of it, any comments that come</p>
<p>back take them with a pinch of salt, you know your worth, good, bad, or indifferent</p>
<p>keep going, after all it is only poetry . . .not the Spanish Inquisition ! let your words do the talking. Good luck . . .William.</p> Hi Catherine,
I like free spe…tag:www.sydneypoetry.com,2013-03-28:5231298:Comment:485632013-03-28T04:13:56.282ZAdam Aitkenhttp://www.sydneypoetry.com/profile/AdamAitken
<p>Hi Catherine,</p>
<p>I like free speech too, and I think there's too much self censorship in the arts world, because people don't feel confident in saying what they feel in case it impacts on their careers. ultimately it leads to boredom and mediocrity. </p>
<p>But if you don't know why she was banished how can you mount an argument in her support? Were her comments helpul for other poets on this site? Were they advancing the opportunities of writers? My understanding is that this site was…</p>
<p>Hi Catherine,</p>
<p>I like free speech too, and I think there's too much self censorship in the arts world, because people don't feel confident in saying what they feel in case it impacts on their careers. ultimately it leads to boredom and mediocrity. </p>
<p>But if you don't know why she was banished how can you mount an argument in her support? Were her comments helpul for other poets on this site? Were they advancing the opportunities of writers? My understanding is that this site was losing readers because of Ester. In other words, she was having a destructive effect on the readership and participation in this site.</p>
<p>I feel that free speech is fine but this site should continue to debate what it's standards should be, and there should be continual monitoring and discussion of what is and is not acceptable. In the end though, the moderators are doing a lot of the work keeping this site going and they should have the final say as to what is acceptable.</p>
<p></p> Thank you William... :)tag:www.sydneypoetry.com,2012-11-29:5231298:Comment:453522012-11-29T23:36:18.699ZLeigh Lemayhttp://www.sydneypoetry.com/profile/LeighLemay
<p>Thank you William... :)</p>
<p>Thank you William... :)</p> Leigh, Please feel very welco…tag:www.sydneypoetry.com,2012-11-28:5231298:Comment:451592012-11-28T11:27:21.751Zwilliam james fallshttp://www.sydneypoetry.com/profile/williamjamesfalls
<p>Leigh, Please feel very welcome, and yes . . . a novice should be helped along.</p>
<p>It would be amazing if we all wrote a brilliant poem every time !</p>
<p>but most of us are living in a real world, so we do what we can.</p>
<p>Carry on and do what you do, over time a voice will emerge . . . your voice.</p>
<p>good luck. William.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Leigh, Please feel very welcome, and yes . . . a novice should be helped along.</p>
<p>It would be amazing if we all wrote a brilliant poem every time !</p>
<p>but most of us are living in a real world, so we do what we can.</p>
<p>Carry on and do what you do, over time a voice will emerge . . . your voice.</p>
<p>good luck. William.</p>
<p> </p> Wow...this discussion was inf…tag:www.sydneypoetry.com,2012-11-27:5231298:Comment:450802012-11-27T11:33:14.503ZLeigh Lemayhttp://www.sydneypoetry.com/profile/LeighLemay
Wow...this discussion was informative and humorous. I admire intelligent people so I really enjoyed reading this....but I have to admit, some parts sounded condescending and elitist. Please don't take this the wrong way as I don't mean any disrespect, but it would be a lot more constructive if you used your obvious knowledge about poetry to encourage and assist those who are just starting out. I am one of those novices and I didn't feel very welcome here after reading some of this thread.
Wow...this discussion was informative and humorous. I admire intelligent people so I really enjoyed reading this....but I have to admit, some parts sounded condescending and elitist. Please don't take this the wrong way as I don't mean any disrespect, but it would be a lot more constructive if you used your obvious knowledge about poetry to encourage and assist those who are just starting out. I am one of those novices and I didn't feel very welcome here after reading some of this thread.
This issue goes beyond one…tag:www.sydneypoetry.com,2012-10-26:5231298:Comment:447472012-10-26T00:40:11.457ZDermott Ryderhttp://www.sydneypoetry.com/profile/DermottRyder
<p> </p>
<p>This issue goes beyond one person’s perceived transgressions.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Justin: I agree ‘…Maintain certain [established community] Standards’. Perhaps as indicated by the moderators welcoming policy message and, of course, conditioned by the natural courtesy of the well brought up poet.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Alan: I agree ‘…Rigorous standards’: Rigidly accurate, allowing no deviation from a standard, demanding strict attention to rules and procedures, naturally tempered by human…</p>
<p> </p>
<p>This issue goes beyond one person’s perceived transgressions.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Justin: I agree ‘…Maintain certain [established community] Standards’. Perhaps as indicated by the moderators welcoming policy message and, of course, conditioned by the natural courtesy of the well brought up poet.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Alan: I agree ‘…Rigorous standards’: Rigidly accurate, allowing no deviation from a standard, demanding strict attention to rules and procedures, naturally tempered by human kindness, of course.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Both writers, I think, are seeking to achieve, for Sydney Poetry, a sense of quality, a degree of excellence, recognition and respect.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>William: I hear your cry from the heart, however I do not detect a cogent argument why one should not write poetry and also write about poetry. I refer you to the essay ‘In Defence of Poetry’ by Percy Bysshe Shelley; ‘An Essay on Poetry’ by Steven C Scheer; ‘Reading Irish Poetry’ an essay by Maria Johnston.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>To add to the laudable ambitions of the correspondents, I would like to see a broader range of work appearing on the site, more variety, and a little light and shade perhaps, a little humour, and a little joy.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I have no desire to see the world of poetry through the prism of the gut-wrenching despair of blubbering Bob because Darling Millie has run off with Bad-Arsed Billy the Biker. Equally, I find the tear-stained malapropisms of cruelly dumped Debbie of Deniliquin heavy-going. I am not suggesting, however, that they should not bare their troubled souls when the need arises.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Also, I do not wish to encounter, every time I open a screen or a book, an impenetrable wall of words. Must every poetry publication be a tsunami of the unintelligible, the incomprehensible and the brain numbingly dull? ‘Sydney Poetry’ need not emulate the poetry publications of the grant funded ‘poetry big end of town’.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Now this is where the work really starts. There are many rewarding alternatives to the ‘stream of consciousness’ abyss. Consider this a twelve step program to build experience and confidence, to achieve enjoyment and to produce a variety of poem types. Accept the challenge, write one each [or more] of the following:</p>
<p><b> </b></p>
<p>1.01 Nonsense Verse: A type of poetry containing fantastic images, non-standard words and designed to entertain. Refer: Jabberwocky by Lewis Carroll.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>1.02 Villanelle: A nineteen line poem: The first and third lines of each stanza rhyme with each other and with the first and third lines of every other stanza. The second lines of all stanzas must also rhyme. Refer: Do Not Go Gentle Into That Good Night by Dylan Thomas</p>
<p> </p>
<p>1.03 Limerick: a five line vignette where the first and second lines rhyme, the third and fourth lines rhyme and the final line rhymes with the first. Refer: Edward Lear and numerous others.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>1.04 Haiku : A seventeen syllable poem in three lines [5] [7] [5] usually commenting on the seasons originally written by Japanese greenies and non Japanese esoteric trendies. Refer Yosa Buson and Kobayashi and many [anonymous] others.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>1.05 Clerihew: A humorous mocking verse with two rhyming couplets naming a famous or infamous person. Our good friend ‘anon’ has written a trillion of these.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>1.06 Narrative Verse: A story told in the form of a rhyming poem. Refer: Paul Revere’s Ride by H W Longfellow and The Highwayman by Alfred Noyes.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>1.06 Lyric Verse: Takes several rhyming forms including Pastoral, villanelle, sonnet and ode and is usually about romantic love. Refer: A Red, Red, Rose by Robert Burns.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>1.07 The Big Ballad: is a big poem that tells a big story in an exciting and entertaining way. Refer: The Pied Piper Of Hamlin by Robert Browning, The Man From Snowy River by Banjo Paterson; Charge Of The Light Brigade by Alfred, Lord Tennyson.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>1.08 The Pastoral, or Watching-Sheep-Sleep poetry, is a lyric verse about shepherds, nature in general and about country living. Refer: The Passionate Shepherd by Christopher Marlow and The Nymph’s Reply to The Shepherd by Sir Walter Ralegh.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>1.09 The English [or Shakespearian] sonnet, most commonly written in iambic pentameter and captured in a fourteen line rhyming scheme of ABAB or ABBA is a popular vehicle of interesting topics.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>The sonnet started life in Sicily in the 13<sup>th</sup> century. It comes in several forms, all worthy of consideration. The most influential early sonneteer, with over 300 poems, was Latin scholar and father of Humanism, Francesco Petrarca [1304-1374], known to the English as Petrarch. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Chaucer [1343-1400], Sir Thomas Wyatt [1503-1542] and Henry Howard Earl of Surry [1517-1547] are largely responsible for the introduction of the sonnet into England. Will Shakespeare [1564-1616] wrote 154+ sonnets [mostly about a young man] try number 18.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>1.10 Blank Verse: is poetry that is in meter but not rhymed. Edmund Spenser [c1552-1599] created many of his early sonnets in this form. John Milton [1608-1674] also used it from time to time and to good effect. Focus on Spenser, Milton or indeed the Great War sonneteer Edward Shillito [1872-1978].</p>
<p> </p>
<p>1.11 To facilitate odd moments of madness there are also: Alphabet Poems, Riddles, Epitaphs and all manner of ‘poems peculiar’. Each of above has a set of clearly defined rules. Conforming to the rules can be a challenging and rewarding exercise.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>1.12 Finally: There is ‘Free Verse’ this is sometimes described as unrhymed verse without a consistent metrical pattern. It appears to have no rules. Much ‘Free Verse’ reads like a short story cut up in verse form. It often seems to be the last refuge of the textually incontinent. Approach it with trepidation and suspicion. So is it actually poetry at all?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>After all this, if you feel the urge to produce a long, rambling, self-focussed, self-revealing pastiche, that is your privilege, so go right ahead and do it. When family and friends tell you that it is truly wonderful, be warmed by their kindness but give more weight to the body language and verbal response of strangers.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Finally, a thought on criticism: Remember, if you cut us, we bleed… Also, a useful convention for the emerging critic to adopt is: When you criticise the work of another writer always give ‘reasons for comments’ and include a couple of verses of your own to demonstrate your ability and to show that your criticism comes from a courageous and knowledgeable person.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>L’envoi: By our thoughts may you know us,</p>
<p> our perceived best intentions applaud,</p>
<p> as in all discussion we encourage you</p>
<p> to contribute your own intriguing word.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Regards</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Dermott Ryder</p>